The Courage to Share
Getting our writing out in the world can be terrifying.
I’m not even talking about getting your book published. Sharing your writing with family and friends just so it can be read can be a hurdle, one that seems impossible to overcome.
But finding one person you can share your work with can make a world of difference.
Esther Schultz experienced this herself when her late mother-in-law asked to read some of Esther’s writing—writing which Esther had never shared with anyone before.
It was her mother-in-law’s encouragement that helped boost Esther’s courage enough for Esther to chase her dream of writing as a career.
A dream which is coming true, one year and one book at a time.
Listen to learn:
- Why sharing your writing with others enriches your writing life
- How to find inspiration when writing historical fiction
- Considerations when choosing to take the Indie publishing route
- The value of hiring an editor as an Indie author
Here’s a sneak peek:
[04:57] We all need someone who believes in us just a little bit more than we do to kind of keep us going.
[08:31] At first I thought, “okay, I'm just going to do a trilogy.” But then I was talking to a friend of mine and she was like, “I could see this being more of a series.”
[11:09] Every book that comes out, there's always tears and always questioning, “oh my gosh, what am I doing? What am I doing?”
[12:41] At the last minute, I was like, “I'm just going to do it myself.” I went ahead and just went for it. It's got mistakes all over it, but I'm proud of it because I created that.
[17:00] Because for example, you can write a sentence and you can read it a hundred times, but in your head what you're trying to say, and you're going to miss those misspelled words or words that are going to be backwards.
[19:12] They don't know who I am, so how can I expect them to be excited if they haven't even heard my name?
[24:01] And I met this amazing woman, she was ahead of her time, and I'm like, “oh, I'd love to incorporate that character, that real life person, in my story somehow.”
[25:40] And I had someone tell me one time, “well, time's going to go by no matter what anyways. You might as well be doing what you love.”
Links from today’s episode:
Song of the Lake by Esther Schultz
The Courage to Share, with Esther Schulz: The Resilient Writers Radio Show -- Full Episode Transcript
Intro:
Well, hey there, writer. Welcome to The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas, and this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love.
Because—let's face it—the writing life has its ups and downs, and we wanna not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page.
This podcast is for writers who love books, and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who wanna learn and grow in their craft, and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books, and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them, writers who wanna spend more time in that flow state, writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community in this crazy roller coaster ride we call “the writing life.”
We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives, and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome, writer, I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.
Rhonda Douglas:
Well, hey there, writer. Welcome back to another episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm excited to have with me today, Esther Schultz. Esther is the author of several books, now, in women's fiction and in particular women's historical fiction, which we're going to dive into today.
I'm holding the most recent one, I think, Song of the Lake, and she's a freelance writer and she lives in central Minnesota with her family. And you can find more about Esther at theestherschultz.com and we'll put that in the shownotes so you know where to find her. Hi Esther, welcome.
Esther Schultz:
Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Rhonda:
I'm delighted to talk to you. So, tell me a little bit about how you got started with writing. It's kind of a two part question. When did you decide you were a writer, but when did you take it seriously, like, really dive all in?
Esther:
Sure. I get that question a lot and it sounds silly, but I've been writing my entire life. I used to write poems and sonnets and I always was creating stories in my head, and in my early twenties I thought, “oh, I'd really just love to write as my career,” and that sort of thing, but I just didn't really believe that that was in the cards for me because there was a lot of self-doubt in my own ability.
And then in 2020, my in-laws moved in with us. They were having some health problems, and my mother-in-law, I was talking to her one day and I was like, “I'm a closet writer.” She was like, “what are you talking about?” So I told her that I write, a lot, but I don't ever do anything with it. And she's like, “well, I want to read your work.” She was an avid reader, and so she read my first book that came out. It was a very, very rough draft, and when she got done reading it, she was like, “Esther, this is good. You need to do something with this. You have a gift.”
So, I did some research on going traditional versus the independent route, and I really just wanted to kind of focus on the independent route. I wanted to just control my own work and the idea of going traditional terrified me. I was like, “you know what? I like the idea of controlling my work and controlling when I get it done,” and all of that. So I decided to go the independent route.
I found a really amazing editor. She has been fantastic to work with. I've learned a lot from her. And I published What Lies Across The Sea, my first book, in 2021. In fact, my author copy came in the mail one week before my mother-in-law passed away. It's really incredible to be able to show her this. She really was one of the main reasons I went for it. I never had anybody read my work and just really believe in me that way. That book is dedicated to her.
So, I went for it and I haven't looked back. I've published a book a year since then, so I came out with Great Water, Big Sea in 2022, and Song of the Lake just this year. And I'm working on my next book in the series, the Willow Bay series, hoping for it to come out at the end of next summer, beginning of fall next year, 2024.
Rhonda:
Wow. What was your mother-in-law's name?
Esther:
Barb Shulz. Barbara Schultz.
Rhonda:
Barbara. Good for you, Barbara. We all need someone who believes in us just a little bit more than we do to kind of keep us going. What a great story.
And why historical fiction in particular? Your books are set in Minnesota where you live, correct?
Esther:
Yeah.
Rhonda:
Is something about Minnesota generating them, or something else, in terms of the historical angle?
Esther:
I've always loved history. When I first went to school, I thought maybe I'd be a history teacher, which never happened, but I just have always loved history. We were the family that anytime we travelled, we were stopping at any historical site that you could come to.
And I just fell in love with history and I love learning about things and where we've come from, even in my own family. But then nine years ago, we moved to Minnesota and I just fell in love with the state. We went to Lake Superior for the first time, and I was so inspired to write something.
Rhonda:
Amazing landscape, isn't it?
Esther:
Yeah. I was inspired to write something about Minnesota, and I started writing, actually, the third book in the Willow Bay series. And I was so in love with these characters that I went back at the beginning and started Great Water, Big Sea, and I ended up publishing that book, and now I'm finishing book three in the series now. But I don't know, I love history. I've always loved history.
I love learning new things about things that have happened in history, and it's just been a lot of fun to get to know the state that I fell in love with in a more intimate way. And a lot of projects that I have, either on my laptop or in my head, because my goal is to publish a book a year for the next 20 years. I keep coming back to history, and I love it so much and I like to tell those parts of history that we may have forgotten or that we may not know about.
Rhonda:
Love that. And how did you make the decision to do a series, and related to that, have you planned out the whole thing, or how many more books are there? What was your thinking around series versus standalone?
Esther:
I originally was going to just write one book, but then I started writing book three, and there were a lot of little hints of the history of this town and this family, and I was just like, “I really want to tell the story and go back the beginning,” which, they're, of course, fictional characters, so it sounds silly to say that out loud, but I just really wanted to go back and tell the story. Minnesota is very rich in Swedish and Norwegian, Scandinavian immigrants who've come over and settled in the Minnesota area. I wanted to go back and kind of tell that story, but I wanted to incorporate Lake Superior.
I decided to go back and start from the beginning of this family's coming over from Sweden. It kind developed. At first I thought, “okay, I'm just going to do a trilogy.” But then I was talking to a friend of mine and she was like, “I could see this being more of a series.” And so I was like, “I'm not going to call it a trilogy. I'm going to call it a series.” And so I have plans for a book four, and I have an idea of how that's going to all come into play, and I have ideas of how to do maybe some spinoff books, just kind of incorporating the same Nielsen family in the Willow Bay area in the Willow Bay town. So it just kind of started out as one book, but then it kind of morphed into this bigger project than what I originally intended.
Rhonda:
I think that for indie publishing in particular, series are really great because it lets readers kind of find you, get to know you, and then they're anticipating what's next. So this Nielsen family, are they based on anyone in particular?
Esther:
They are not. It's based on being inspired by those who came to this country looking for a new beginning. And it was hard for them to leave everything behind. My family is Prussian. In fact, I have ideas of another book or maybe series of telling my own family story. They actually came over from Prussia and settled in Minnesota. So there's definitely a strong German-Prussian story as well, which I think would be really fun to write and kind of honor my personal history. But yeah, I forgot where I was going with that, but…
Rhonda:
They just appeared out of nowhere, the way characters do.
Esther:
Yeah, they just appeared out of nowhere. And I love creating characters and watching them develop into these people, essentially, fictional people. But it's a lot of fun for me to sit down and create these characters and just watch them grow into their own entities.
Rhonda:
We get so attached, hey, they really do become real to us, which always sounds weird, but it does.
Esther:
It's true.
Rhonda:
It's the fun part of it.
When you decided to go indie, what was the learning curve like? Because looking at your book, and I'm looking at the cover and listeners readers can't see the cover, but it's quite gorgeous. It's got a backdrop of, and then there's a woman in a period dress staring off into kind of some dark clouds rolling over the lake, and it looks traditionally published. It's a good cover. That learning curve, I think, can be steep. So tell us about the first one and what that was like for you.
Esther:
Oh my goodness. A lot of tears. Every book that comes out, there's always tears and always questioning, “oh my gosh, what am I doing? What am I doing?” But I love it too much to stop. I learned a lot with my first book, because I went into that first book thinking to myself, “I will have succeeded if I get it published and have a book in my hand.”
I didn't sell too many copies, but I sold more than I thought that I would, ‘cause I didn't really market it in any way. It was just word of mouth and family and friends supporting me. There's a couple of independent bookstores in the area that have really been supportive of my work. That's been really helpful in getting my name out into the community. But I went into it knowing I had no idea what I was doing, and I accepted that for what it was.
Anytime I made a mistake, it was just like, “you know what? That's just one more thing I've learned of what not to do or a better way to do it.” My first cover, I had hired a company to do it for me, and it just wasn't looking right. It wasn't feeling right. In the last minute, I was like, “I'm just going to do it myself.” I went ahead and just went for it. It's got mistakes all over it, but I'm proud of it because I created that. And the book cover on that one was last minute. The next two I actually designed and have created all of my covers. So the fact that you're saying that it looks traditional—
Rhonda:
Yes, it totally does.
Esther:
Is a huge compliment. Thank you. I had a friend of mine help me with the font on Song of the Lake and helping me with the colors, but I designed it and she helped me put those finishing touches on it, but I just—
Rhonda:
Did you have any design experience before you did that?
Esther:
No, I didn't. I love art, though, and I love to create things. It's been kind of a fun process to start with one idea and then kind of watch the cover mold into this new thing. There's a part of me that would love to eventually find someone who I could work well with and create covers, but at the same time, I would want to have a lot of hands-on experience because I get an idea of what I want it to look like in my head. But it's definitely a learning curve. I was just excited that I got the book out and that I did the thing. I just never thought it would be anything in my wildest dreams that I could ever do.
It was a dream that I had as a young kid, but never thought that it was possible. And with every book that I've written since then, I've learned a ton. Like I said, I found an amazing editor, and she really has helped me a lot. She suggested some books to read, some different podcasts to listen to, and it's definitely a learning curve, and you’ve just got to take it for what it is, and you're going to get harsh feedback at times, but you got to just take it and see what you can learn from it, and it holds weight and value. You learn and move on, or you just let it go.
Rhonda:
Has your editor edited other Indie authors as well?
Esther:
I believe so. She's definitely worked with other independent authors. I'm not sure how many. What attracted me to her is, I was on a Facebook group—I don't remember now, but it was for independent authors—and I was looking for an editor. And what attracted me to her is she said that she really liked to work with newer authors to help them grow, but also she could be very honest.
And that's what I needed, was someone who would be very honest with me, not harsh, but honest, because I knew that I didn't know what I was doing. And I still have so much to learn. I've learned a ton, but I know there's always room for growth, right? But knowing that she would be fully honest with me is what attracted me to her, but in a kind way. She's very blunt at times, but that's what I need is someone who's going to be, “Esther, I know what you're trying to say, but this,” yeah.
Rhonda:
You want to share her name?
Esther:
Yes. It's Jeanne Felfe.
Rhonda:
Jeanne Felfe?
Esther:
Yes.
Rhonda:
Well, she's done a good job. And I think that often when people think about self-publishing, they think that they're going to write the book, they're going to put it in a Word document, they're going to run a spell check, and it's going to be good to go.
And I think that working with an editor is so, so smart. Just for the book, but also all the learning you're talking about. If you look back to that first book, you must just feel like you're a different writer altogether.
Esther:
Oh, absolutely. There is a level of growth with every book that I've come out with. And granted, I've only come out with three so far, but I mean, you can see my writing style and you can see my voice in every book, but I feel like I've matured as a writer with every book that I've come out with.
And I think having an editor and having that group of people that can give you feedback is so important. Because for example, you can write a sentence and you can read it a hundred times, but in your head what you're trying to say, and you're going to miss those misspelled words or words are going to be backwards.
Rhonda:
It's just not as vivid as it could be if you just replaced one word, or something.
Esther:
Right. Yes.
Rhonda:
I'm not finished it, but I'm well into it. And it reads traditional, too. It reads well, it's well written. I'm not reading it thinking, “oh, this is Indie published,” which is honestly the best of Indie publishing today, where people are committing fully and doing the editorial work and taking on the full creative project and putting out really quality reads that send readers back to them for the next book. So yeah, you've done it. You've done it. It's great.
Esther:
Thank you so much. That means a lot because I really want to create quality and something where people want to come back and read more of my work.
Rhonda:
And the thing about being an Indie author, although it's a little bit true for traditional as well, is you're your own marketing department. Now, publishers have expectations of traditional published writers as well, but for sure you're just like, a hundred percent—it's you and it's you.
So how have you approached the marketing? How do you fit that in, because you're the publisher, you're the marketer, and then you're hoping to get the next book out. So how do you fit that together?
Esther:
I've had to do a lot of thinking outside the box and I've had my work in a magazine where they did a spotlight on my book, and that was really great. And I've tried to do a lot of word of mouth. I've tried to do different events where it's just the author events in my area, but I've stayed pretty local. And then this year I was like, “I've got to get my name out there.”
So I've started doing vendor events, which was really hard for me. I was like, “okay, I feel like I'm taking a step backwards,” but I was like, I want people to come to an author event, at, say, a winery or a bookstore. They don't know who I am, so how can I expect them to be excited if they haven't even heard my name? And so I decided to do vendor events this year.
Rhonda:
What’s a vendor event? I don't know what a vendor event is.
Esther:
Oh, it's like a craft fair. They have different vendors that are there selling different products, and they have crafters. They're selling things that they have created and made. And at first I was like, “I’m so embarrassed that this is my marketing strategy,” but then I was like, “you know what? Who cares?” It's what's going and it's getting my name out there.
And I was so excited, I was at an event at the beginning of November and she was like, “oh my gosh, I've heard of you.” And I was so shocked, and she was like, “I think my sister or an aunt or someone had seen you at another event,” and I thought, “wow, this is really working.” And so I figure it can't hurt, and sometimes you have to think outside the box, and I'm still in the process of learning the best way to market my work.
That first year I was like, “I am not even going to think about marketing.” I'm just happy that I got the book out and I considered that to be successful. And last year I really did try to do more events, single events, but I decided, really, if I'm going to do this full-bore then I’ve really got to figure out a different marketing strategy. So I am just thinking outside of the box and just trying new things, and some things work and some things don't, and I figure whatever happens, happens.
Rhonda:
Do more of what works.
So, what's your writing process like in the middle of this? I did want to know if you were, because you're working on a series, are you plotting, are you pantsing? Are you somewhere in the middle?
Esther:
I am in the process. How I do it is, I just sit down and it's like I just get the whole story out, and then as I'm writing the story, if I get stuck or whatever, I'll go back and reread what I've written, and I find myself then editing as I read. I kind of do this just writing, get it all out on paper, kind of an editing process as I'm going.
I don't outline. I know some authors do outline. I get confused when I outline and I just want to sit down and write it. Once I start outlining, I'm like, “no, I just want to sit down and write the story. It just needs to come out.” So I just sit down and I write, I write as much as I can. It can be challenging. I have four kids. My husband is very supportive.
My oldest is 20, she's in college, and then I have a 10-year-old and then 7-year-old twins. I actually can't believe that I got What Lies Across the Sea and Great Water, Big Sea out. When I did, I was in the middle of Covid and the kids were home from school, but my husband is super supportive and he can tell when I'm in that writing mode.
When I get in that mode, I get up in the morning and all I do is I just sit there and write. And then he'll bring me food and say, “you probably should eat something. It's two o'clock the afternoon,” and then I'll write until my brain hurts, literally until eight o'clock. And then I do a lot of big chunk writing that way. But if I'm like, “oh, I really like this idea, I'll kind of just jot it down,” and then make sure I incorporate it later in the story or where I want to fit it in.
Rhonda:
Wow. Okay. So you said you want to do a book a year for 20 years.
Esther:
Correct.
Rhonda:
So, that's the dream. And will they all be said in Minnesota? Are you kind of really invested in continuing to explore Minnesota and its history?
Esther:
Some books are going to be in Minnesota, but I have a project that takes place in England and the colonies, and then I have a project that I have in mind that—I was just in France, so I'm inspired to write a historical fiction book about a character that goes from the US to France. And we went to this amazing villa while we were there and I met this amazing woman, she was ahead of her time, and I'm like, “oh, I'd love to incorporate that character, that real life person, in my story somehow.”
Rhonda:
So there's a few series you're thinking of, or are they all series? Are these series you're thinking of or you don't know yet?
Esther:
I don't know yet. The one that I was talking about where it's my family, I definitely would see that being a series, but I don't know, it just depends on how it comes together. The Willow Bay series, I wasn't expecting it to be a series, but it has become that.
Rhonda:
Is Willow Bay a real town?
Esther:
No, it's not. It's fiction, but there's a few different towns along the North shore of Lake Superior in Minnesota. There's Grand Marais and Two Harbors in Silver Bay, and there are these beautiful coastal towns, and I just wanted to create my own town, but inspired by those towns.
Rhonda:
That's fun.
So, as you know, this is The Resilient Writers Radio Show, and the last question I always ask people is, what does it mean to you to be a resilient writer? If I say, “oh, we're resilient writers,” what comes up for you?
Esther:
That's a great question. To me, it's just to keep going. There are so many obstacles that are going to come up in life, and so many times when I was younger, I would say, “I want to write, but I don't have time. It's not in the cards right now. I don't have time.” And I had someone tell me one time, “well, time's going to go by no matter what anyways. You might as well be doing what you love.”
And so to me, it's just to keep going and keep getting back up when you get those setbacks, or when you're doubting yourself, when the tears are flowing and you're like, “what am I doing? No one's going to read this garbage.” It's just to keep going and to just remember why I'm doing it, which is because I love it so much. I love to create characters. I love to tell stories. I love to incorporate a little bit of myself and a little bit of my own story in each book that I create. And yeah, it's just to keep going even when it gets hard.
Rhonda:
Yeah, so good. Well, and another nod to Barbara who got you out of the closet and into the world with your novels, which is amazing. And so book four is coming out when?
Esther:
I am shooting for the end of the summer, beginning of the fall. That's about the time that I usually get my books out, it's been around September, October.
Rhonda:
Great. That's good. Well, good luck with it. I'll look forward to it. Thanks so much for being here, Esther.
Esther:
Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Outro:
Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of the Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes.
Your ratings and reviews tell the podcast algorithm gods that “yes, this is a great show. Definitely recommend it to other writers.” And that will help us reach new listeners who might need a boost in their writing lives today as well. So please take a moment and leave a review. I'd really appreciate it, and I promise to read every single one. Thank you so much.
